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Wednesday, July 12, 2017

SCOTT

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SCOTT last won the day on October 31 2017

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  1. maybe i rushed that statement, it was definitely a warning to stalin. . and it was also at least partly to end the war quickly before stalin took over more asian territory. if you do not want to believe that fine. ignorance is bliss. read your history. stalin had already taken over eastern europe. he shipped a large number of troops to asia as soon as berlin fell. he ended up with manchuria mongolia the stans, north korea and his allies ended up with china. that to me signals an attempt to grab as much territory as possible. if you do not call that a threat then you are delusional. stalin went for booty everywhere he ""liberated"" viz a viz occupation troops-- yes most of the combat troops had gone home. There was hatred in the public for the sneak attack on pearl harbour. there was racism in the propaganda.. read any report by a combat soldier or marine in the pacific in ww2. the japanese soldier was respected in some measure due to his tenacity in defence, but was ruthlessly exterminated universally. There was not much feeling about killing japanese troops. It amounted to the emotion aroused in killing a bug. the occupation troops were recent draftees. most of the combat soldiers with enough points were on their way home. the japanese had become docile in defeat. There was no resistance or bitter feelings expressed by the population. it was easy for the new soldiers to lose them selves in cheap booze and women. Which is what they did. read about the condition of the "combat" troops brought to korea in 1950. "task force smith" are the keywords. i disagree with your attack points and the ridicule your express. there was little hated for the german people in north america in ww2 because they were white and germanic people had settled in large numbers. therefore many families had relatives on the other side. the russians and the germans hated each other with a passion. cruelty will generate hate. the same cruelty expressed by the japanese for civillains-nanking, pow's -the railroads and the starvation and murder of prisoners there was universal hatred and no sympathy for the victims of the tokyo fire bombings. that series of bombings alone killed more people than the a bombs. The true totals of either are hard to count but it is my guess that they are close to the same numbers. That would not include the ultimate deaths caused by radiation perhaps. i enjoy a lively discussion but as your rebuttal style is personal attack, we have nothing more to exchange.
  2. also it was not just roosevelt. churchill send convoys also prior to dec 7 1941.
  3. Most of what you put here is correct in my opinion.. I feel that 7% is far too low, however.
  4. do not discount soviet propaganda that states that the soviets could have done without the aid we sent. that is nonsense. hundreds of thousands of trucks, thousands of tanks, thousands of aircraft hundreds of locomotives, dozens of ships including a battleship. not to mention hundreds of thousands of rolls of copper wire, ammunition,gasoline, oil, medical supplies. I am not near my referEnce books at the moment but i just read something on it. challenge me and i will get you an ansswer form a good source. Aid did not just come from the Atlantic and up to Murmansk, it went across to VLADOVISTOK--My spelling is wrong but I have not got the time to look it up. Also via rail up through Iran. The Soviets may have survived without our massive amounts of aid but they would not have won for a longer time than it took. Or they might have sued for a separate peace once their sources of raw materials, especially oil in the Caucasus were lost.. https://www.rbth.com/business/2015/05/08/allies_gave_soviets_130_billion_under_lend-lease_45879.html THIS OFF THE INTERNET WILL GIVE YOU SOME IDEA OF THE AMOUNT OF AID. SOME OF THE TOTALS ARE FAR BELOW WHAT I HAVE READ IN OTHER SOURCES. THE SOVIETS HAVE DOWNPLAYED THE ALLIED HELP AS IT WOULD HAVE SHOWN THAT SOVIET AGRICULTURE AND INDUSTRY TO BE DEFICIENT. THIS HELP WAS NOT GIVEN OUT OF ALTRUISM BECAUSE IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT THE SOVIETS WERE FACING THE GREATEST BULK OF THE GERMAN ARMIES AND THEY MAY WELL HAVE SUED FOR PEACE IF THEY GREW TOO WEAK. THIS HAPPENED IN WW1.
  5. the bomb was dropped as a warning to stalin. also to shorten the war because there was a fear that stalin would take over asia. and the japanese were beaten much more quickly than the U.S. chiefs of staff thought they would be. also with the incredible brutality of the japanese during their successful period in 1941-1942 they were so hated that no one gave a damn whether the japanese people were wiped out. The level of hatred in the U.S. and with the troops that had to fight these hordes of rapacious monsters was very intense. i would have dropped it without thinking twice. millions more japanese would have died if we had invaded as planned Also many hundreds of thousands of allied troops. look at the horror show that iwo jima and okinawa became on such a small scale. imaging the whole of the japanese islands? there really was no political or moral choice. it had to be done. those who oppose it are absolutely wrong. i know a woman whos 2 high school friends died at hong kong in the Cdn army after brutal mistreatment.
  6. various roles. carried a similar bomb load to berlin as the b17--fast for photo recon--very nimble night fighter--deadly as a train buster and ground strafer. made of wood therefore very cheap to ;produce. the p51 and spitfire were still neccesary obviously but for adaptability i favour the mosquito.
  7. There was a slim chance if the nazis had won at Kursk. After that there was no chance. The main turning point was the invasion of Poland. The nazis had insufficient armored forces and no 4 engine bomber. They also relied on horses too much to beat an industrialized America. They must have known that America would come in some day. Hubris killed the fuehrer and wrecked Germany, not to mention lost it a lot of territory.
  8. The A bomb was as much a message to the Russians as it was a means to end the war. The longer the war went on the more territory the Russians would have taken. Roosevelt was dead and the new president and his generals knew this. Roosevelt trusted Stalin. The Japanese could have held out for years. They still had 4500 kamikaze planes, suicide speed boats and a few assorted subs and small navy craft. Americans and Brits and all the other members of the allied forces would have continued to die. By holding out many more Japanese would have died from round the clock bombing, strafing and starvation. Not to mention the thousands of Allied POW's already at death's door held prisoner in Japan. You must also consider the hatred and lust for revenge among the Brits and the Americans. Pearl Harbor and the atrocities committed, including eating Allied POW's. The Japanese were considered sub-human. There was no way that bomb was to going to be used.
  9. Look what America did to us? Really? Read your history kid. What did you expect America to do after the atrocities your country perpetrated n the Chinese, Indonesians and POW"S? THE BOMBS SAVED MILLIONS OF LIVES. An invasion would have left Japan underpopulated. the americans and the tag alongs from the commonwealth & Russia would have had to kill most of the population. I heard a story years ago that the U.S. gov't minted so many purple hearts that they have not run out yet.
  10. I AM SURE YOU MEANT LATE START. I AGREE AND HAVE MADE THAT POINT IN A PREVIOUS POST. AUTHOR MOSIER MADE THAT POINT IN ONE OF HIS BOOKS. THEY LOST A LOT OF TROOPS IN IN NORTH AFRICA AND ITALY. THE 2 FRONT WAR COST THE GERMANS VICTORY IN BOTH WARS. NOT TO MENTION CAUSING THE BEGINNING OF COMMUNIST CONTROL OF CENTRAL EUROPE. THOSE PROBLEMS ARE STILL BEING DEALT WITH 100 YEARS LATER. IF THE GERMANS HAD GONE INTO THE UKRAINE AS LIBERATORS THEIR TROOPS COULD HAVE HAVE BEEN PUT TO BETTER USE TAKING THE BREAD BASKET OF RUSSIA, GOT MORE RESOURCES AND A LOT MORE VOLUNTEERS FOR THEIR FIGHT AGAINST RUSSIA. NOT SECURING THE OIL IN THE CAUCASUS WAS A HUGE ERROR. MOSCOW WAS NOT AS IMPORTANT. THEY MIGHT HAVE STILL LOST WITH THE LEND LEASE AGAINST THEM. BUT IT WOULD HAVE GIVEN THEM A BETTER CHANCE.
  11. DID HITLER START EARLY? BRITAIN HAD FINALLY WOKEN UP AND WAS REARMING FURIOUSLY ESPECIALLY THE AIR FORCE. AMERICA WOKE UP AND WAS BUILDING THEIR ARMY. HITLER DID EVERYTHING RIGHT UNTIL ABOUT 1940.THEN IN 1941 HE BEGAN TO SCREW IT UP BY INVADING RUSSIA. THE BRITS BY GONG TO GREECE DID THE ALLIES A HUGE FAILURE BY DELAYING HITLER BY 6 WEEKS FROM STARTING BARBAROSSA. THE LARGE FORMATIONS THAT WENT THROUGH THE BALKANS WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FOR RUSSIA. HITLER WAS DOOMED FROM THE START, LIKE THE JAPS HE COULD RUN WILD FOR AWHILE BUT THE IMMENSE INDUSTRIAL PRODUCTIVITY OF THE U.S.A. WOULD EVENTUALLY OVERWHELM GERMANY. AND JAPAN WITH IT. ONE OF THE PREVIOUS CHAPS WAS QUITE RIGHT TO SAY HITLER LOST THE WAR BY STARTING IT.
  12. I ADMIT I HAD TO LOOK IT UP IN WIKIPEDIA TO GET THE INFO TO REFUTE YOUR VOTE. ONLY 200 WERE BUILT. LOTS OF DESIGN FLAWS SUCH AS VERY THIN ARMOUR MAKING THEM VULNERABLE. IT COULD NOT WADE THROUGH DEEPER STREAMS, IT ALSO DID NOT HAVE SLOPING FRONTAL ARMOUR. VERY VULNERABLE TO GERMAN A/T ROUNDS. THE BRITISH FOUND THE FIREFLY AN EASIER SOLUTION AND WENT WITH THAT MACHINE AFTER THE CONTRACT FOR 200 CHALLENGERS WAS SIGNED. IT WAS NOT TERRIBLE BUT THE CREWS FELT LIKE SITTING DUCKS IN THEM.
  13. THE OPEN TURRET IN A MORTAR BARRAGE WOULD HAVE SCARED THE YOU KNOW WHAT OUT OF ME. BUT TO HAVE A BIG GUN FOR A CHANGE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN REASSURING. YOU MAKE A VALID POINT. NOT SURE WHEN THE 90MM GUN WAS INTRODUCED. BUT IT WAS A GOOD WEAPON AND BADLY NEEDED.
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