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Wednesday, July 12, 2017

Adam R

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Adam R last won the day on December 20 2017

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  1. I dont think taking Moscow would have sealed victory for Germany. Napoleon took Moscow a century earlier, the Russians simply retreated and waited for winter to set in. Taking Moscow didnt provide victory, it just meant Napoleon's retreat took longer. He entered Russia with a French army of 500,000 and left with 20,000. Had the Germans took Moscow, they would have won a symbolic victory, but not the war. The Russians could have retreated and later encircled them as they did at Stalingrad.
  2. The crowd let out a might roar "Cracking good show!" Says King George 6th "Bravo!" Agrees Einstein. "Marvellous" says the Dalai Lama picking up his red robe and leading the esteemed crowd off to lunch.
  3. Hitler brings two arms down to crush Stalin with a deathly blow. But the older man has vanished. With a combat roll, Stalin has escaped Hitler's cluches with a feline grace. Now behind the Nazi leader, Stalin deftly twirls Hitler's own braces adound his sweat soaked neck. Silent, transfixed, in concentration, Stalin is choking the Nazi leader. Now two handed, pulling back with all his strength as Hitler's screams out for air. Stalin holds on ever tightening his grip, like a Boa Constrictor snake crushing it's prey. Stalin sucks the life out of Hitler, until finally the Nazi leader jolts, spasms, and collapses lifeless.
  4. Stalin falls back onto the ground. Hitler pounces on top. Arms grapping, hands wringing around Stalin's neck. The crowd are in uproar. "Come on Joe!" Princess Elizabeth lets loose, seemingly suprising herself with this outburst. Excitement has gripped the crowd. Even the Dalai Lama, red robe now cast down on the ground, is jeering withc clenched fists. Churchill smiles knowingly "It is always the one's you least expect, that get the most out of these occassions." Truman nods enigmatically "quite." Hitler is pounded Stalin now like a well engineered machine. Arms flailling, full focus and energy on the Soviet leader. How he longed for this day, single combat with his old nemesis. He may have lost the war, but he will win this battle. Hitler feels the intensity rising inside him. It is was if the whole war, his whole life, his struggle - Mein Kampf! All these years of building his Aryan nation was leading to this point. He lifts his bloodied hands to the sky and howls like a wild animal "Seig heil!"
  5. Hitler is in first. Eyes now screaming like black hollow shadows, sucking the air of the sky. Livid, lithe, lustily anticipating victory. Hitler's swings right, left, right. Thrusting arms, and chanting violently with every manouvre.
  6. At the front of the crowd, Winston Churchill flicks cigar ash on the cobbled grounds. Swamped in a large black cashmere overcoat, that sumptuously covers his crumpled spine. Churchill joyously turns to Truman. "FDR would have loved this" Truman, tie still notted, gives a bemused look through his modest round glasses "I dont know how you pulled this off Winnie, but it is quite something. My only question is" he hesitates, "The girl. Are you sure it's right for her to be seeing this?" Churchill scoffs, and belches with bad indegestion. "I should say so! Do her the world of good, to see a bit of action. We have high hopes for her you know." Churchill bows his head catching the eyes the young girl in riding costune, who stands a step behind her father the King of England George 6th. As the King stares on engrossed, arms folded. "Princess Elizabeth" Churchill nodds as he goes on "I mean what's it all for Harry, all this power, statecraft, warfare! What is it for if you cant put on a show like this? No money in the world can buy you a seat at this table, only the Great can see this, spectacle." Truman frowns, "I just wonder what you will do with Hitler after. If no body is found, the conspiracy theorists will gossip for decades." Churchill smiles through a floating puff of cigar smoke, "You let me worry about that old boy. You enjoy the show. And dont forget, you backed Hitler, and if Stalin wins, I shall want prompt payment." All eyes back on the fighters as the two men come together for the first time. Great leaders of men, commanders of armies, tanks and aircraft. Bringers of Blitzkrieg, and iron and devastation. But here, on this sunken ground, stripped down to the bones. Just two men ready to go blow to blow, in a straight fight, to the death.
  7. The two men meet in the yard. Bombed out buildings surround, concrete waste land. This is far removed from the palatial dwelling of Heads of States. More bleak council estate, than Kingly palace. A rough drawn chalk carved circle marks the ring. It is here the battle will take place. Hitler bounces on his toes, his black eyes livid with anger, excitement, fury. Pulling dramatically down on his braces, Hitler turns to the crowd and shouts wildy, "Deutschland uber alles! Deutschland Seig Heil!" Rounding back on Stalin with a scowl he spits words and then gutterily from the back of his throat croaks "Untermensch!" Stalin is a stark contrast. Calm, quiet, reflective. Beneath his bristly moustache , perhaps even the flicker of a smile touches his lips. As Hitler slathers words in Stalin's face, the Soviet leader doesn't react, gives no response at all. Stalin could be preparing for a chess game, while Hitler could be braying to a beer hall mob. Hitler roars with delight! He can taste fear in the air. He has overpowered Stalin already, outmanoevered "this slavic sub human", before the battle has even begun. The bell chimes twice. Hushed silence, and the men come together in duel.
  8. In a one on one fight between Hitler and Stalin, who would have won? Hitler was 5 foot 9 and a brave war veteran with an Iron Cross to his name Stalin was 5 foot 6 and began his political career as a violent murderous bank robber In a fair one on one fight between the two most evil men of the twentieth century, who would have won?
  9. This is interesting: https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/operation-unthinkable.html Churchill wanted war against USSR in 1945, and wanted to use the US nuclear bombs to impose US and UK will, "we can just blot out Moscow, then Stalingrad, then Kiev, then Sevastopol". As the Soviets quickly developed nuclear bombs by 1949, Churchill's ruthless plan may have caused nuclear Armageddon. I am a Churchill fan but I think this attempt to pursue another World War in 1945 after the full horror of WW2, against one of our Allies Russia, does cast him in a different light.
  10. Ron you as a Brit defending Henry 8th for murdering two young wives due to "moral authority to for pretty much anything that led to succession", is an example of a Brit defending a brutal leader. It is the same as the Mongols celebrating Khan. It makes Henry 8th somehow as a martyr providing national service, when he killed two young women who had lost his favour. It should be pointed out that Anne Bolyen had actually provided an heir Elizabeth 1st, and by the time Catherine of Howard was beheaded, Henry 8th also had Edward 6th as heir, so he neednt kill her to secure succession and prevent any civil war in England. In granting, a leader "moral authority to do almost anything", we can understand how other nations feel about their past Kings, Emperors and Dictactors. The Russians say of Stalin, with some justification, whatever he did to the Russian people "only Stalin could have stopped Hitler". And the Chinese excuse the 75 million Mao killed because China developed rapidly. The Germans adored Hitler, he was elected by 33% of the public in 1933 and by 1934 90% of Germans voted for him to become Furher. Even in the 1980s despite the catastrophe of Nazism for Germany, it was quite common for Germans to defend Hitler, "he didnt know what was happening in the camps, he loved the country." Italians also revered Mussolini, and Berlusconi recently said he had only one mistake in allying with Hitler which was understanable as it appeared Germany would win. From Napoleon to Caesar, every nation has had brutal leaders in its history, and the citizens of those countries, lionise those leaders, they grant them "moral authority to do almost anything" as they have played an important role in nation building.
  11. Yes but Stalin is lionised in Russia, and Mao lionised in China, so no surprise to me Khan is lionised in Mongolia. Closer to home, Henry 8th is lionised and idolised in Britain although he killed thousands and murdered two of his wives. So British people are also part of this phenomenon of idolising brutal rulers. "Hold on a minute, yes that is true of Russians, Chinese and Mongolians but we Brits dont idolise Henry 8th, we know he was a tyrant!" I hear you thinking. Before you challenge me on this point, I draw your attention to a survey of 500,000 Brits, on how was the greatest Brit. Henry 8th was voted 40th, above Charles Dickens, proof he is revered still in England despite his brutality. The Mongols love of Khan is no different. He is a strong leader, who gives them pride in his empire, despite his brutality. Julius Caesar boasted in his Commentaries that he killed 1 million Gauls, and enslaved another million, and he is likewise admired in Italy. Almost every nation in the world has had a brutal leader at some point, that helped build a sense of national consciousness.
  12. In a total war such as WW2 I dont think you can make such as distinction between civilians and soldiers. Civilians were forced to serve as soldiers through conscription. Civilians were bombed extensively such as in the Blitz. Civilians all contributed to the war effort through whatever means they could. The Japanese even trained school girls to bayonet soldiers. We were involved in total war with Japan, and they with us. The Japanese killed around 6 million civilians in China and Asia. This included raping on mass civilians, and conducting biological experiments on civilians. To bring the war to an end, the Allies needed to defeat Japan and force them to surrender which would inevitably lead to civilians lives being lost. The atom bombs led to less Japanese deaths either combatant or civilian, than the alternative of fire bombing and invasion which would have killed millions. This alternative would have also caused a much greater loss of life for the Allies and our governments had a duty to take action which reduced our casualties and saved our citizens lives.
  13. The atom bombs were required as Japan Bushido culture prohibited them from surrendering. Even after 2 atom bombs the military tried to stage a Coup d'etat to replace the Emperor for agreeing a conditional surrender. Using conventional warfare to defeat Japan would have cost millions of lives. This was a lesser evil. Also, this "single greatest act of destruction in human history" actually ushered in an age of peace from world wars. A main reason there has not been a repeat of WW1 and WW2 is the nuclear deterrent. Ironically, the atom bomb has saved lives in defeating Japan and in preventing future global wars.
  14. Yes lets keep our exchanges polite and civil. We are all history lovers with our own points of view. We dont want this forum turning into a facebook rant between two sides hurling insults like we had over Brexit
  15. Yes I think the Nazis could have conquered Britain. Another factor not often mentioned which is of historical significance is the role of drugs. Norman Ohler has shown in Blitzed that the German army were proscribed on mass Methanthematine, a very strong drug. 35 million doses called Pervitin were proscribed to the army for the invasion of France, which meant the German soldiers did not need sleep and took the Allies by suprise with the speed of their drug-fuelled advance. A few years later in Russia, the German soldiers were fighting ongoing pitched battles street to street, house to house with Russians, and therefore missing sleep through Meth conferred no advantage. In fact, the sleep the Germans lost, they would need to catch up and after a few years in Russia of regular Meth use, depression, anxiety, sickness and negative side effects began to impact the German troops. But being able to go without sleep due to Meth / Pervitin, during Operation Sea Lion would have given the Germans a significant advantage. Wave after wave of German soldiers could have charged Britain's shores and then advanced up the country at lightening speed, high on Methamphetamine, like Nazi zombies, until Britain fell. It must be taking into account that Britain would have surrendered easier than the Russians. This is because Brits knew they would be treated well by the German victors, who respected if not admired Britain. Life in England would have barely changed under Nazi dominion. But the Russians knew they faced total extermination and mass enslavement, and therefore had to fight on. All things considered, Hitler had a damn good chance of taking Britain. Churchill said the government would move to Canada Empire would fight on in this scenario until "the new world (US) with all its might, came in to save the old". But the Nazis may have rebranded their invasion of England as a "Glorious Revolution" just as the Dutch King William of Orange did in 1689 when he conquered England claiming he was invited by the establishment. Hitler had also been invited by the British Establishment including the King of England Edward 8th who abdicated in 1936, only to visit Hitler in 1937, with his Nazi wife, where it was agreed Hitler would reinstate him on the throne of England. Nazi propaganda would have helped convince England that decadent politicians had betrayed them, and the Nazis had returned their true King ordained by God to rule. British people convinced of their own invincibility, would have accepted this story to ease the Cognitive Dissonance caused by German conquest of England. Britain ruled Nazi King Edward 8th, occupied by German troops, would have become allied to the Furher, just as Hitler always planned. Perhaps even one day as Hitler had dreamed German and British troops would march together to war against (what Hitler called the "evil") United States of America.
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